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Horse profile

Rhetoric (IRE)

8yo gelding (at last run, Dec 2007) · Last trainer George Jones · Last owner John D N Siviter
by Desert King (IRE) out of Squaw Talk (USA) (Gulch)
20 runs · 8 courses · from May 2005
As at 28 Oct 2026 · KTB archive: GB, Ireland & France · 2005–present, updated daily
No run recorded since 20 Dec 2007 — 6,887 days ago. Our archive can't say whether the horse is still in training.
Last run Dec 2007 · 7th of 10 First-time headgear LTO Last raced off OR 80
KTB Profile

Rhetoric (IRE) is yet to win from 20 starts, though has placed 3 times. Best effort: 3rd of 9 at Hereford (Nov 2007).

Based on 20 archived runs · updated 28 Oct 2026
Official rating80↓ 2lb off peak
80 64–82

KTB Speed and Rating

KTB Speed

No KTB Speed figures for this horse. The engine scores GB and Irish racing from Oct 2016; runs elsewhere, or earlier, have no figure.

KTB Speed v1 · batch 15 Sep 2026 · GB & Irish racing only · 0 figures from 0 runs · a record, not a forecast

KTB Rating

Best recent KTB Rating 76C the best of the last 3 rated runs · Hereford, 4 Dec 2007 Official rating 80 at the last run, 20 Dec 2007

What the horse achieved in each race, in pounds on the official-rating scale, from the weight carried, the lengths beaten and the race's own level solved across the archive — never the market, never the official rating as a starting point. The headline is the best of the horse's last three rated runs on that code. A, B or C on a run is how much known form was in that race. What this means →

Jumps 17 figures · best 97C · median 66
GoingRunsBestMedianSince 28 Oct 2025
Good897C66—
Good to Firm579C66—
Good to Soft376C64—
Firm1———
DistanceRunsBestMedianSince 28 Oct 2025
1m5f – 2m1287C65—
2m1f – 2m4f479C70.5—
2m5f – 3m1———

Of 20 runs looked at, 3 have no figure: did not complete (or a non-runner row) (3).

KTB Rating v1 · batch 3 Oct 2026 · GB & Irish racing only · 17 figures from 20 runs · as at 4 Oct 2026 · a record, not a forecast

Both figures are KTB's own, computed from the archive; no vendor rating enters either. Every run's figure is on its form line below with its grade. Grades measure how much the archive could see, never the merit of the run.

Run style is derived from in-running commentary, which our data provider does not supply for this horse's races.

Pedigree intelligence

Sire
Desert King (IRE)

Progeny in our archive have won 9% of 1,142 runs since Jan 2008 (104 horses).

Strongest on good to soft going: 13.4% from 157.

GoingRunsWinsSRvs sireThis horse
Firm5120%+110 from 1
Good to Firm122108.2%−0.80 from 7
Good3844010.4%+1.40 from 9
Good to Soft1572113.4%+4.40 from 3
Soft267197.1%−1.9—
Heavy13996.5%−2.5—
Standard (AW)6834.4%−4.6—
Distance (all codes)RunsWinsSRvs sireThis horse
6f – 7f1200%−9—
1m – 1m1f4436.8%−2.2—
1m2f – 1m4f7157%−2—
1m5f – 2m3964511.4%+2.40 from 13
2m1f – 2m4f398358.8%−0.20 from 6
2m5f – 3m192126.3%−2.70 from 1
Over 3m29310.3%+1.3—

Flat and jumps together (all codes) · since Jan 2008 · as at 28 Oct 2026 · rows under 30 runs muted · win % is the measure, a record not a forecast

Dam
Squaw Talk (USA) (Gulch)

4 siblings in the archive, 3 winners — best of them Westmeath (GB) (3 wins).

The wins came over 2m–2m6f; the highest grade won is Class 4 (Koolala (IRE)).

ProduceRunsWinsWin tripsBest grade
Westmeath (GB)1632m2f–2m4f—
Koolala (IRE)1232m–2m5½fClass 4
Undone (GB)612m6f—
Administrator (GB)60——

Record by conditions

GoingRunsWinsSR£1
Good 9 0 0% −9.00
Good to Firm 7 0 0% −7.00
Good to Soft 3 0 0% −3.00
Firm 1 0 0% −1.00

ClassRunsWinsSR£1
Class 4 13 0 0% −13.00
Class 5 4 0 0% −4.00
Class 6 2 0 0% −2.00
Class 3 1 0 0% −1.00

CourseRunsWinsSR£1
Hereford 5 0 0% −5.00
Ludlow 4 0 0% −4.00
Newton Abbot 3 0 0% −3.00
Stratford 3 0 0% −3.00
Taunton 2 0 0% −2.00
Uttoxeter 1 0 0% −1.00
Bangor-on-Dee 1 0 0% −1.00
Worcester 1 0 0% −1.00

DistanceRunsWinsSR£1
1m5f – 2m 13 0 0% −13.00
2m1f – 2m4f 6 0 0% −6.00
2m5f – 3m 1 0 0% −1.00

JockeyRunsWinsSR£1
Miss Sarah-Jayne Davies 17 0 0% −17.00
Jamie Goldstein 1 0 0% −1.00
Rodi Greene 1 0 0% −1.00
James Davies 1 0 0% −1.00

HeadgearRunsWinsSR£1
None 19 0 0% −19.00
Blinkers 1 0 0% −1.00

SeasonRunsWinsSR£1
2007 8 0 0% −8.00
2006 11 0 0% −11.00
2005 1 0 0% −1.00

TypeRunsWinsSR£1
Hurdle 15 0 0% −15.00
Chase 5 0 0% −5.00

Splits include every sample, however small — muted rows are under 3 runs. A one-from-one record is a fact, not a trend: read the Runs column before the strike rate.

Form

DateCourseRace PosBtn Wgt ORKTB Jockey SP
2007 · 8 runs
20 Dec 07+16d Ludlow Tanners Cava Lady Riders' Handicap Hurdle Class 4 · 16f · Good · 10 ran 7/10 9 9-13 8069C Miss Sarah-Jayne Davies 50/1
04 Dec 07+5d Hereford Lindley Catering Amateur Riders' Novices' Handicap Hurdle Class 5 · 16f · Good To Soft · 15 ran 7/15 8 10-8 8276C Miss Sarah-Jayne Davies 25/1
29 Nov 07+7d Taunton Beauty Of Bath Maiden Hurdle (Div 1) Class 4 · 16.5f · Good To Firm · 12 ran UR/12 — 10-7 82— Miss Sarah-Jayne Davies 50/1
22 Nov 07+11d Hereford Wbxtriplecrown.com Novices' Handicap Chase Class 5 · 16f · Good · 14 ran 7/14 1¾ 10-7 7264C Jamie Goldstein 14/1
11 Nov 07+17d Hereford Magenta Maiden Hurdle Class 4 · 16f · Firm · 9 ran 3/9 12 10-7 7887C Miss Sarah-Jayne Davies 33/1
25 Oct 07+32d Ludlow Bowyer Styles Ltd Handicap Hurdle Class 4 · 16f · Good To Firm · 9 ran 5/9 4 9-7 7263C Miss Sarah-Jayne Davies 100/1
23 Sep 07+22d Uttoxeter APB Group Ltd Novices' Chase Class 4 · 16f · Good · 11 ran 9/11 6 10-12 7276C Rodi Greene 100/1
01 Sep 07+254d Newton Abbot toteexacta Novices' Handicap Hurdle Class 4 · 17f · Good To Firm · 13 ran 6/13 2½ 9-7 7266C Miss Sarah-Jayne Davies 33/1
2006 · 11 runs
21 Dec 06+42d Ludlow Tanners Champagne Handicap Chase Class 3 · 16f · Good To Soft · 10 ran 5/10 12 10-0 7264C James Davies 33/1
09 Nov 06+14d Ludlow Severn Maiden Hurdle Class 4 · 21f · Good · 12 ran 6/12 1¼ 10-7 7297C Miss Sarah-Jayne Davies 33/1
26 Oct 06+12d Taunton Bath And Newbury Members Handicap Hurdle Class 4 · 16.5f · Good · 9 ran 3/9 13 9-7 7261C Miss Sarah-Jayne Davies 25/1
14 Oct 06+16d Stratford totesportcasino.com Lady Riders' Handicap Hurdle Class 4 · 16.5f · Good · 15 ran 10/15 16 9-7 7249C Miss Sarah-Jayne Davies 40/1
28 Sep 06+40d Hereford World Bet Exchange wbx.com Novices' Handicap Hurdle Class 4 · 16f · Good To Firm · 13 ran 8/13 1 9-10 7266C Miss Sarah-Jayne Davies 25/1
19 Aug 06+16d Bangor-on-Dee Genesis Wealth Management Novices' Handicap Hurdle Class 4 · 16.5f · Good To Soft · 9 ran 5/9 12 9-7 7242C Miss Sarah-Jayne Davies 14/1
03 Aug 06+11d Stratford W & S Recycling Day Maiden Hurdle Class 4 · 18.5f · Good To Firm · 11 ran 3/11 22 10-7 7279C Miss Sarah-Jayne Davies 80/1
23 Jul 06+25d Newton Abbot Newton Abbot Racecourse Classified Hurdle Class 5 · 18.5f · Good · 10 ran 6/10 8 10-9 7259C Miss Sarah-Jayne Davies 50/1
28 Jun 06+8d Worcester Wbx.com Novices' Hurdle (Div 2) Class 4 · 16f · Good · 12 ran 7/12 ½ 10-7 7268C Miss Sarah-Jayne Davies 100/1
20 Jun 06+47d Newton Abbot What's On Torbay Amateur Riders' Selling Handicap Hurdle Class 5 · 18.5f · Good To Firm · 14 ran 6/14 2½ 9-7 6475C Miss Sarah-Jayne Davies 100/1
04 May 06+349d Hereford Julian Graves Hunters' Chase Class 6 · 19f · Good To Firm · 16 ran PU/16 — 11-7 —— Miss Sarah-Jayne Davies 100/1
2005 · 1 run
20 May 05 Stratford Needham & James Hunters' Chase Class 6 · 17f · Good · 20 ran UR/20 — 11-7 —— Miss Sarah-Jayne Davies 100/1

Quick answers

How many races has Rhetoric won?
Rhetoric (IRE) has yet to win, from 20 archived starts between 2005 and 2007. Placed 3 times in total (15% of starts).
Who trained Rhetoric?
Rhetoric (IRE) was trained by George Jones on the most recent run on record, at Ludlow on 20 December 2007.
Who is Rhetoric's sire?
Rhetoric (IRE) is by Desert King (IRE) out of Squaw Talk (USA), whose sire is Gulch.
What is Rhetoric's official rating?
The most recent official rating on record is 80, from the run on 20 December 2007. The highest on record is 82.
What is Rhetoric's sire's record?
Desert King (IRE)'s progeny in our archive have won 9% of 1,142 runs since Jan 2008 (104 horses), Flat and jumps together. Strongest on good to soft going: 13.4% from 157.
Who are Rhetoric's siblings?
Out of Squaw Talk (USA), Rhetoric (IRE) has 4 other produce in our archive, 3 of them winners. Most wins: Westmeath (GB) (3). Highest grade won: Class 4 (Koolala (IRE)). The wins came over 2m–2m6f. As at Oct 2026.

Record shown from May 2005. Our archive holds racing in Great Britain, Ireland and France from January 2005. Runs in other countries are not in it, and earlier runs are not available from our data provider. In-running comments are available from 2024 onward.